A worthwhile "big-history" survey

Would you listen to Foundations of Eastern Civilization again? Why?

Perhaps...at least certain parts.

What other book might you compare Foundations of Eastern Civilization to and why?

From Yao to Mao: 5000 Years of Chinese History (The Great Courses, Narrated By Professor Kenneth J. Hammond); The Fall and Rise of China (The Great Courses, Narrated By Professor Richard Baum. The present book is the third lecture series from The Great Courses on China. Of the three, Baum's is much the best but covers mainly the last couple of centuries. Hammond's is a straightforward survey that is rather superficial; it provides the basic information but does not really convey the sense of how things were and why they happened (this is of course always a problem with broad surveys). Benjamin's survey suffers from this too, but he makes up for it by drawing upon archaeological evidence and by including Korea, Japan and southeast asia to put thing into a "big history" perspective.

What about Professor Craig G. Benjamin’s performance did you like?

He is energetic and evidently engaged. His Australian accent did not bother me too much, but his problem is his misunderstanding of the Chinese pinyin system of transliteration. He tell us that it is a more intuitive improvement on the older and more complicated Wade-Giles, when in reality pinyin's aim is an unambiguous coding of the sounds of Chinese through the Roman (NOT the English) alphabet. As a result, pinyin is far from intuitive for a speaker of English or any other Western language since it does not refer to any particular Western language; in fact, an English speaker would have a better chance of pronouncing something comprehensibly using Wade-Giles which was based on English. More specifically, the letters x,c,q are impossible to pronounce intuitively; unless their arbitrary phonetic values are learned precisely, the pronunciation will be incomprehensible, as often in this audiobook. E.g. the name Cao-cao is pronounced "Kao-kao" when it should be "tsao-tsao", 'Quan" becomes "Kuan" when it should sound more like "chuan". The distinction between words ending with '-an' and '-ang' is also essential, and here too mistakes render all but incomprehensible names that the reader does not already know. Pinyin is an excellent system, but it needs to be learned in a systematic way. I was dismayed that Prof.Benjamin had not done this.

Any additional comments?

There are some factual errors that I don't have time to point out, and in particular Benjamin's understanding of post World-war II China leaves much to be desired (in this area Richard Baum is far more competent). Despite its failings, however, I would still recommend this course for its "big-history" perspective.

73 people found this helpful

Good, but biased

There's a lot of great history here, but the professor (from Australia) tows the communist party line. Some examples include referring to modern Taiwan as part of the PRC, defending the one child policy, referring to the 89 massacre as an "incident" where we really don't know that it's as bad as everyone says. He brushes over Mao's policies as being good natured but just not working out and doesn't mention that Mao is responsible for more deaths than Hitler or Stalin.

As frustrating as the bias is, the course was a good introduction to Asian history for me. I didn't know much about the subject going in and feel like I've learned a lot. I just didn't feel like I could trust the professor.

56 people found this helpful

Good History but Lacking Depth on the Foundations

Would you say that listening to this book was time well-spent? Why or why not?

Overall: a solid course full of great history from a professor with an engaging style but there were also a number of lectures I found myself disinterested and wondering when a deep discussion of the foundations of an Eastern civilization would occur.

Pluses:
• The following topics were engaging: the history of China, all of its major dynasties, oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang dynasty, the silk roads, samurai Japan, and the evolution of the countries from conquerors to the conquered at various times in their histories
• Eastern civilization was not just studied in isolation: interactions with the western world, comparisons to the western world at different points in time, and the examinations of which civilization was leading technological advances on the world scene at what times helped add perspective

Minuses:
• At times I wished the professor would’ve spelled the name of the dynasty or person he was discussing since he seemed to either mispronounce it or say it in a fast way that seemed rushed
• At times the recounting of the rise and fall of dynasty after dynasty (especially in Korea and Japan) without any historical context of the ultimate legacy of that dynasty or providing perspective at a bigger picture level was monotonous and un-intriguing
• Although the professor does a good job of continuously referencing the “foundations of Eastern civilization” in his lectures, the foundations themselves seemed light to me; Other than respect for elders, an emphasis on the collective vs. the individual, Confucianism, Daoism, and Buddhism (and even in these cases I found myself wishing the professor would’ve elaborated a little further on the key tenants or provided practical examples of their use in government, society, etc.) there seemed to be a lack of core foundations that would define an “Eastern civilization”
• Breaking up the course into four distinct regions (China, Korea, Japan, and southeast Asia such as Vietnam) and discussing one region at a time for a number of centuries before switching to another led to a sense of hopping backwards and forward in time just a little too much; A more effective approach could’ve been discussing all four regions at the same time in a strict chronological narrative

38 people found this helpful

Ok if you never heard of China otherwise weak content.

Not a fan of the presenter or the content.

Presenter is not well spoken and the content is very weak compared with every “the great courses” I have listened too.
Speaker uses the same annoying phrases over and over. Sometimes out of context to the point he is trying to make.

I would recommend Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World. It is shorter but contains more useful information. Hopefully I’ll be able to find a few addition books on the Far East.

Would recommend this lecture series to middle school children.

Best regards

7 people found this helpful

Good in Spots

While passionate some of the history was not detailed enough or actually misleading especially in the Medieval period and he made sweeping statements that were inaccurate. I have heard some of the other teachers of the Great Courses who did know this history and explained it better.

7 people found this helpful

Great Chinese history overview, Japan part less so

If you could sum up Foundations of Eastern Civilization in three words, what would they be?

Very engaging speaker, weaves in interesting stories. Really seems to know Chinese history well. Gives a brief, but good overview of Korean history. Southeast Asia is barely covered, but he does what he can.

My only qualm was with the Japanese history lectures. Granted he has a lot to cover, but he seems to be a bit out of his depth here. He makes some assertions that a casual student of Japan will find incorrect. (For example, he seems to suggest that all of Heian read the Tale of Genji during Muraski Shikubu's lifetime, when in reality only a few of her close consorts would have heard it.)

Still, overall I got what I wanted out of this course. A good value for money if you stick with it until the end =)

7 people found this helpful

The East Comes Alive

There are many resources that examine Chinese history and Chinese civilization, but this is one of the rare resources that cover China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and the other nations and civilizations of Central Asia.

Everything from great leaders, philosophies, economics, religions and their influences from and to other parts of the world and among themselves. It is a deep, rich course leaving you wanting more.

7 people found this helpful

great overview

Any additional comments?

I really enjoyed this lecture as an introduction to Chinese/Far Eastern history. I started out not knowing much at all about anything farther east than Persia, and now feel like I have a solid grasp on the general course of Chinese history, and would not like to learn more about a few specific periods and places that I had never heard of before (such as the Kushan empire).

One thing I did not like about this course was the inconsistent or inaccurate pronunciation of various place names and dynasties. Sometimes he pronounces a word correctly the first time, but then anglicizes it more later--and at times the pronunciation is not only incorrect, but leaves you with an entirely mistaken idea of how it might be spelled (which makes it harder to look further into an interesting topic).

Otherwise it was an informative and enjoyable listen.

6 people found this helpful

Lots of Information But About Conceptualization?

Foundations of Eastern Civilization, the Great Courses, by Professor Craig G. Benjamin. I am having difficulty in determining just precisely what to write. Did I like the book or was it tedious; should I recommend or warn. Well, you can see by my rating it did fine, but not my usual spectacular rating for the Great Courses. Let me give you some of my considerations so you can make your own decision whether to take on these 23 plus hours of lessons.

I certainly believe I had, prior to my listening to the course, a good understanding of oriental positions in international trade, economics, national relations and international politics as a whole. But now tuning to another derivative meaning of the sound “hole,” there was a flaw to my knowledge. I did not know the history of eastern mankind. How did humankind spread through the Far East? When did pastoring, farming, permanent settlements, etc. come into being. What empires rose to power, what progress did they engineer, and what competitions did they fight in their rule? What are the elements of Eastern religions and what effect did they have and do they continue to have into the present.

This very (listenable) readable book very ably tells of the civilizations that formed from the beginning of time memorialized, the geography of each nation, the history of the inconsequential and important dynasties, the development of religions, and their influences and of course trade between the empires. I knew bits and pieces and did not have a command of the overall oriental history picture. Oh yes, silk road and all that was in my volume of knowledge. I mastered Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse when I was a hippie. I have read the Good Earth trilogy, by Pearl Buck, and as a good student of karate, I have read the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi, the Art of War, by Sun Tzu and each and every James Clavell I could get my hands upon. But I really did not know the continuing history of the Far East. Foundations of Eastern Civilization fills in that whole “hole” of deficiency. In fact, it absolutely, completely, provides an unequivocally whole accounting. (I am really overdoing the wholesomeness of this review?)

So what’s not to like? One gets plenty of volume but one is not left with conceptual mnemonic structures to remember all the disparate data points laid out so very nicely by Professor Benjamin. Thus, this is the lecture to read if you want information but not guidance. I am happy I read the series and now have so much more to think with when reading of occurrences in the Far East. But there could have been more to the teaching.

5 people found this helpful

A misleading title for a biased telling

What could have made this a 4 or 5-star listening experience for you?

1/ This lecture is NOT about the Foundations of Eastern Civilization. It is only about China. Every lesson that concern another theme (Korea or Japan for example) was done in relation to China only. This would be okay if the title was Foundations of Chinese Culture, but it was not.

2/ Apart from Japan and Korea, other countries are barely glanced at. The lesson on Vietnam was so poor it brought almost no knowledge at all, and an incredible number of countries were only mentioned: Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia, Tibet, Nepal.

3/ The book cover is the picture of THE MOST FAMOUS BHUTANESE SITE, even though Bhutan is one of these countries that were NEVER discussed about !!! The only mentioned of Bhutan was in the recitation of China's neighbors. I found this choice of picture both insulting and infuriating, especially considering the multiple territorial conflicts that exist between China and Bhutan.

4/ Add to the poor quality of this lecture, I didn't like Professor Benjamin's organisation. His accent wasn't a problem, but the way he cut the lessons was confusing in multiple moments. Timeline is respected for a while, that goes back and forth in time and make it difficult to follow. Also, his explanation of Confucianism and Taoism was very abstract, the translation to the political world was not done properly. It was even worst for Buddhism.

5/ After listening to these 48 lectures, it became clear that the Professor has a fascination for China, and on purposely focused on the great aspect of this country's history. The terrible historical events were treated in a fast manner, unless they were provoked from an outside power towards China. It reached a point - specifically towards the end and the extremely under-developed lesson on Cold War - that I believe the Professor was paid by Chinese Government to bend the course in this direction.

6/ To go with my previous point, I found it very hard to accept the fact the Professor never mentioned Tibetan rich history, apart from a brief line during the Mongol lesson. The recent events, from the the reunification to the local unrest, the political conflict between Chinese government and the Dalai Lama, the destruction of so many

What do you think your next listen will be?

I already purchased the second volume of Foundation of Western Civilization. The first volume was amazing, the complete opposite of this book, and I'd recommend that anybody interested in History to listen to it. I hope the second volume will be as the first one, and not like Professor Benjamin's terrible

What didn’t you like about Professor Craig G. Benjamin’s performance?

Reference to all points above, i.e. the selection of historical facts, the constant reference to China, the lack of other countries' history, the use of an insulting book cover, the terrible organisation and the general representation of China that was bent.

What reaction did this book spark in you? Anger, sadness, disappointment?

"Anger" towards the cover used, as I mentioned above.
"Frustration" towards the Chinese-orientated general course.
"Disappointment" towards the Great Courses program, which in my opinion dropped the ball completely and should not have accepted this lesson in their program.

Any additional comments?

1/ If we consider that this course relates only on China - which it does - then I think a very important aspect is missing, i.e. the language part. Professor Benjamin talks often how Chinese Language and Writing were used in other country, such as Korean and Japan at certain time of history. However, not only there are dozens (if not hundreds) of languages or dialects talked in China, but Mandarin and Cantonese can be considered as main languages in today's China. I am suspecting that there has been a huge language evolution in Chinese history, which result in some profound Societal changes.
As a result, saying that multiple culture used Chinese Writing as a reference is misleading when considering the language evolution, or simply the natural Chinese language diversity.
Origins of Vietnamese, Thai and other languages have also been skipped out.

2/ Lesson on Vietnam was short and poorly developed. I don't see the point of talking about Vietnam if it is to say so less, and it is insulting for this amazing and unique country's Culture and History.

3/ The Cold War, Korean War and Vietnamese War was all piled inside one unique lesson. Considering the many events, the complexity of the subject and the politics concerned, I found this simplification to be amateurish. This theme should have either take 4 or 5 lessons, or be kept out of the course entirely.

4/ From the description to the many Chinese Dynasty to the twisted way of talking about Chinese expansion, the speaker shows a certain reverence (either personal or paid) towards the Chinese Government or Ideology. It can even sometimes be summarized as a anti-imperialism opinion.
This I believe creates a problem in all lessons, as Professor Benjamin often tells the best side of China's history for dozens of minutes, but summarize in one sentence the terrible moments.
One example: Zheng He and his fleet during the Ming Dynasty. The Professor talked multiple times of the fact that some scholars think the Admiral discovered America in 1421 (basically referencing Gavin Menzies' book), even though it is something an extreme minority of scholars believe. And yes, the Professor mentioned that there is no proof of it, but it didn't stop him to reference this story multiple times towards the course. It should be expected from a Historian to tell a neutral and global story when doing a course like this.

5/ CHANGE THE PICTURE!!! Considering the fact Bhutan basically got territories taken from it by China, and is still in conflict for some border dispute ; considering also the ties between the Bhutanese and Tibetan communities, and the fact Tibetan traditions are believed by many to be destroyed with violence by the Chinese Government ; and considering the general behavior of the Chinese Government towards Buddhism and one of its more revered leader, the Dalai Lama - it is extremely OFFENSIVE to write a book on China while pretending it talks about all Eastern Cultures, and use the picture of the most famous BHUTANESE BUDDHIST SITE as a cover!

4 people found this helpful